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1V Power supply under-powered

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lplessard
Junior(0)
1V Power supply under-powered

What's the maximum power that can by drawn by the Zynq PL? Has this been tested?

I have build a large design (80%) that need to runs at 100MHz, but when I program the bitstream to the Zedboard. The Zynq reset a few ms after being DONE.

Also, I have probed the 1V power supply at C357. After, the PL is DONE, the voltage go down to about 560mV and go back up to 1V probably because the PL resets.

What could be causing this?

Is it because the PL draw to much power?

lplessard
Junior(0)
I have done some further

I have done some further analysis on this matter. I have found in the Zedboard user guide that the budgeted ammount of power for the PL is 1.2A on 1V PSU.

However, using Xilinx Power Analyser, I see that my design can drawn as much as 1.3A. See http://www.louif.com/power_analysis.png .

Also, to verify that it was the power drawn that made the Zynq reset and not some other design flaw, I added clock gating so that much of the design would not draw power at startup. And indeed, in that case, Linux boots just fine. But still, as soon as I activate the clock in the design, the Zynq resets.

I measure the voltage on the 1V rail using an oscilloscope during reset. You may see the results here: http://www.louif.com/ADS00001.BMP

Is there any plan to beef up the 1V PSU so that it can handle a full load? This seems to be like a show-stopper.

lplessard
Junior(0)
Confirmed

I though I'd let you know that I have confirmed this issue.

I bypassed the 1V power supply by using an external power supply. Now, the design is working and as much as 3A is drawn from the 1V power supply.

This is much more than the 2A the MAX15021ATI+ (onboard 1V PSU) is capable of.

zedknight
Junior(0)
I have the similar issue and

I have the similar issue and need an external power supply to power the core voltage. Any tips in modifying the board? Where did you cut the wire and connect the jumper wires? Thanks.

fletch
Moderator(23)
You are correct that the 1V

You are correct that the 1V supply on ZedBoard has a max capacity of 2A. This is shared between all of the 1V requirements on Zynq 7020 -- Vccint, Vccpint, and Vccbram. We estimated what a reasonably aggressive design might do using the tools available at the time which was 13.2 Beta Xilinx Power Estimator. We then added 50% margin to cover any inaccuracies.
 
It is unfortunate that ZedBoard is not capable of supplying what your application requires. If you are willing, I am very interested in correlating what we created in XPE to what your design is doing. Have you analyzed what your design should be drawing in XPE? If so, will you please share it?
 
As changing the 1V supply on ZedBoard would require extensive redesign and we believe it is sufficient for the majority of users, we will not redesign the ZedBoard power supplies.  For those that need more than 2A on the 1V rail, we recommend you use the ZC702 board instead.
 
Bryan

lplessard
Junior(0)
Xilinx Power Analyzer

Xilinx Power Analyzer calculates that my design will use around 1.2A ( http://www.louif.com/power_analysis.png ). I think this is not considering what the ARM processor is using (0.6A).

So, I cannot account for up to 1.2A of power usage. Also, 3A is a peak usage, so it may have been transcient.

fletch
Moderator(23)
I would agree that this

I would agree that this screenshot does not include show the PS running -- notice the Vccp___ supplies. Vccpint is only drawing 23 mA. So there is definitely something missing here. Assuming the PS is 0.6A, that extra 1.2A is still a mystery. We have re-analyzed a Zynq 7020 design in the latest 2013.1 XPE with a 80-90% loaded design, and we are still getting ~1.2A, including the PS. I have never known XPE to be more than 20% off. Perhaps we are not including something. Or maybe XPE has a bug this time. Perhaps your design has characteristics that we haven't mapped properly in XPE, such as clock rate, fanout, etc.
 
If you'd like to take a look at our analysis, see the XPE spreadsheet here.
7_Series_XPE_2013_1_ZedBoard_130610.xlsm
https://avnet.egnyte.com/h-s/20130611/67cc6ff8db144e92
 
Bryan
 

lplessard
Junior(0)
Fix with external power supply

I have removed the L5 coil and connected a wire to one of the pad disconnecting the onboard 1V power supply and connecting the wire to the load. The negative wire may be connected to the ground of C357.

Check the board schematic and be careful.

If you don't do this correctly, you will blow up the board.

ctammann
Moderator(1)
recommendation for designing your own Zynq power

Hey everybody,

I've been talking with Bryan about the power issue and wanted to make a suggestion to the community if you are looking to design your own ZedBoard. The two outputs of the MAX15021 are capable of 4A and 2A respectively. In our design we had the 1.5V used to power the DDR running off of LX1 (the 4A output). Our estimations show that the max expected current draw on the 1.5V rail is 1.5A. That means that the 2A LX2 output should be sufficient to provide the current needed for the memory.

If you design your own board, use the 1uH inductor from the 1.5V supply and just swap the circuits for 1V to the LX1 output and for 1.5V to the LX2 output. You'll notice that all the components are the same except for the feedback set resistors and the inductor. You'll need to use the larger current rated inductor on the 1V supply as well, but other than that there are minimal changes.

In the meantime, if anyone who has had this issue would be willing to share their ZedBoard design and their XPE output with us it would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to work with these data points to try and determine where the disconnect is between the tool and the actual current draw. I'd like to go back to Xilinx to discuss what we've seen, but I need to be able to reproduce the scenario on my bench to be able to accurately describe the problem.
Thanks
Chris

_yann_
Junior(0)
same issue with underpowered vccint

Using the zedboard for cryptographic applications, I experienced the power limit on the 1V Vccint and it is really a killer. In this kind of application, you try to fill up the FPGA and to use every clock cycle.

I don't want to sound grumpy - I enjoy my zedboard very much - but I do think this limitation should be either corrected or clearly advertised otherwise people might just buy a useless board.

drjohnsmith
Junior(0)
zed board et all

Must admit,
If I had released the problems and compromises made on the ZED board, such as power and heat dissipation, I'd have spent the extra money and purchased a ZC702

The hours / days of problems do not bode well.

wachag
Junior(0)
Also, the board is extremely

Also, the board is extremely vulnerable to ESD. My FPGA burnt out (not literally, it just does not boot anymore) just by unplugging a HDMI device (http://zedboard.org/content/burnt-fpga). See also: http://www.zedboard.org/comment/2295#comment-2295

This makes the board fairly useless to educational purposes, where students often plug/unplug devices. I am disappointed. The board is too expensive to let it burn after two weeks of work.

wachag
Junior(0)
After almost two (!) months,

After almost two (!) months, they finally answered my report:

"I have reported this problem as a potential vulnerability of the board. Unfortunately ther is nothing you can do about the damaged board.

Best regards,"

Well. That was ZedBoard (and support) for me. Thank you very much.

Just be careful before you buy this board.

wachag
Junior(0)
It seems, that Digilent

It seems, that Digilent changed his mind, the board will be exchanged. But I think this is only luck. It is still strange that it took 1.5-2 months to compose that short e-mail.

The organization where I bought the board (and who was in contact with Digilent) was absolutely helpful, I am grateful to them.

fletch
Moderator(23)
We are very interested in

We are very interested in doing more to resolve this issue, possibly even modifying the ZedBoard.
 
Is anyone willing to provide us with their design where you see these failing issues?
 
Has anyone attempted  to correlate their design to an estimate in XPE that they will share? Perhaps we are not being aggressive enough in the way we are setting up XPE.
 
If confidentiality is an issue, I believe we can negotiate an NDA before experimenting with your design. Chris and I both requested more details back in June, but we did not get any designs. Without receipt of a failing design, we are in the position of having to go make something up to try to aggravate this.
 
Bryan

_yann_
Junior(0)
I can send you my design. How

I can send you my design. How should we proceed ?